Plug Power Inc (PLUG) Quote

Fullerton has worked at very profitable and well run companies, with Amazon having almost unlimited resources...its almost hard to not do well under those circumstances...

with plug, hes going to have his work cut out for him...he will be dealing with a poorly run company with limited resources and almost no money...these are things he is totally unfamiliar with...

maybe he will do well...maybe he wont...too hard to say either way...but to point to his success at Amazon and think he can do well at Plug because of it?...i think a monkey could well at Amazon...

JB your thoughts and mine are the same when pertaining to Andy Marsh...what are your thoughts of Dean Fullerton as CEO of Plug??

Good NEWS : Buy This Hydrogen Stock. Best In Breed

Sorry, Nothing to do with PLUG :

https://seekingalpha.com/news/4152297-overweight-quality-stocks-with-positive-eps-revision-ms?mailingid=36827774&messageid=2900&serial=36827774.28176&source=email_2900&utm_campaign=rta-stock-news&utm_content=link-3&utm_medium=email&utm_source=seeking_alpha&utm_term=36827774.28176

SEPTA to try out hydrogen fuel cell buses as early as this fall
The 10-bus pilot is part of the agency's efforts to transition to a climate-friendly fleet. But it has attracted criticism from some environmentalists.
By Sophia Schmidt September 23, 2024
...
SEPTA’s 10 hydrogen buses will be fueled at the Midvale station in Nicetown. SEPTA signed a three-year contract for hydrogen from Plug Power, which opened a liquid green hydrogen production plant in Georgia this year. The fueler, its maintenance and three years worth of fuel delivery will cost SEPTA over $5.6 million.
...
https://stocktwits.com/B_B_/message/586824892

JB, thank you for the detailed and insightful response.

WTM - We did the original study in early 2023 for two major distribution centers our client was building (one on each coast).

Note : At that time, we did recommend fuel cells for the forklifts/heavy indoor material handling.

This year (first half of 2024) we updated and revised our study with updated pricing, for the five New Centers they are building. It is very difficult to make an economic case for hydrogen vs electricity in most applications. This is why Walmart and Home Depot still use batteries in their store forklifts. It is one third to one fifth the cost of hydrogen/fuel cells.

Note : The Comparative economics were even more skewed in 2024, but we still recommended fuel cells for indoor material handling.

JB, when was that "comprehensive study on material handling robotics" done?

Mea Culpa .

JB, William is correct, the article mentions Plug Power.

Quote "SEPTA signed a three-year contract for hydrogen from Plug Power, which opened a liquid green hydrogen production plant in Georgia this year. The fueler, its maintenance and three years worth of fuel delivery will cost SEPTA over $5.6 million."
Link https://fuelcellsworks.com/2024/09/23/fuel-cells/septa-to-try-out-hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-as-early-as-this-fall

- less warehouse space
- less vehicles/units
- refueled in just a few minutes
- require less maintenance
- more time in operation and less time out of service
- can carry more weight
- performance does not degrade in low temperature
- cost-effective

WTM - Nothing in that dated news will affect PLUG's share price. I read that story weeks ago, Bill's "news" is just a rehash .

PLUG does not make green hydrogen in the Philly area, and by the time there are hundreds of hydrogen busses, PLUG will be long gone.

WTM - How long can PLUG last if there is NO DOE DOUGH ?

JB, when was the study you referred to in your post performed?

Keep reading PLUG has a 5.6 millions contract to suppy the Fuel for the Buses

JB, I disagree. At a minimum, could be a potential Plug customer for green hydrogen. If not now, perhaps in the future, as they could potentially replace hundreds of diesel buses, with hydrogen buses.

Hi All this one may have already been posted : https://fuelcellsworks.com/2024/09/23/fuel-cells/septa-to-try-out-hydrogen-fuel-cell-buses-as-early-as-this-fall

B_B - Humans are just one component .

Run the numbers using real world variables and let us know if you can beat 3 to 1.

5 September 2024: the latest of which allows for fully automated refuelling

Jun 20, 2024: Notice in the BMW photo, a human.

Sorry Boys - My firm did a comprehensive study on material handling robotics for a major client, and humans and hydrogen can't compete .... Not Even Close.
Although I can't disclosure all of the details (a confidential study), when you add in the cost of an automated hydrogen dispenser, storage and most importantly the cost of any color hydrogen ; Fuel cells cannot compete with rechargeable batteries.

Steve - You don't need one dock for every robot . Think 4-5 robots per docking/recharge station, because these units recharge faster than they discharge.

Notice in the BMW photo, a human. No humans means electric power is the only opex, and electric power is one fifth the cost of hydrogen.

Good luck with your hydrogen Fuel Cell Roomba's and let me know when PLUG sells one.
ANOTHER MULAG.

wrong Jack. If you have 1000 robots needed and only 500 working at a time you might only need, say 750 refueling at different times to do the same work. Therefore, you save space and cost of the robots. The H2 robots may last longer and have shorter refuel times like do forklifts. There just maybe an economic answer here that we are not seeing.

there are five intralogistics hydrogen refuelling stations, the latest of which allows for fully automated refuelling


For BMW, hydrogen is a key component in tomorrow's mobility. It is also an exciting research journey that began 45 years ago – and has now reached a significant stage. BMW can reflect on innovative milestones, current developments, and opportunities for the future.
5 September 2024
...
For many years, hydrogen has been used as an energy source in BMW factory logistics. In 2013, Germany’s first indoor hydrogen refuelling station was built on the Leipzig site. Forklift trucks and tugger trains for intralogistics are refuelled there. More than 10 years later, the Leipzig factory had the largest fleet in Germany with over 130 fuel cell-powered industrial trucks. On the factory premises, there are five intralogistics hydrogen refuelling stations, the latest of which allows for fully automated refuelling. The Leipzig factory is also the first automotive factory in the world to pilot a newly developed burner technology in its paint shop. This allows green hydrogen to be used in addition to natural gas.

In logistics beyond the factory gates, BMW is also working with partners to test the use of hydrogen to decarbonise transport logistics and is involved in projects such as H2HAUL (development and piloting of fuel cell trucks) and HyCET (testing of hydrogen trucks with combustion engines in transport logistics).

https://www.bmw.com/en/electric-future/hydrogen-milestones-pioneering-spirit-for-the-mobility-of-the-future.html

JB, but robots don't do work while recharging the batteries, so speed in recharging/refueling is important. Thus, for example, you would need more robots to do the same amount of work as hydrogen fuel cell robots with autonomous refueling capability. Furthermore, you also need to use a lot more valuable indoor space for the recharging infrastructure to recharge the idle robots, which are in the thousands in the case of Amazon.

WTM - Speed of refueling is not an advantage.  
It is for forklifts because the savings is no idle labor during refueling.

There is no human labor with robots so there is No Savings / Benefits.  That's why we use robots in the first place.

JB, UK, BB, you just reminded me of the other advantage for hydrogen power robots, speed of refueling. Thus, you don't need as many robots, and you don't need as much valuable space tied up in the battery recharging infrastructure.

However, again, they would need to have the autonomous refueling capability in order to be feasible to Amazon, as they have thousands of them.

Jun 20, 2024
Plug is proud to be a longtime fuel cell supplier to BMW as they work toward their sustainability goals using #greenhydrogen. https://t.co/dYeqvQziEW— Plug Power Inc. (@PlugPowerInc) June 20, 2024

They did try that years ago when PLUG was also looking at automated refueling capabilities
These robots like your domestic iRobots just return to base to recharge and they have sufficient capacity to handle the downtime.

Now what could be happening is that Amazon could buy into the Texas Hydrogen production plant in order to guarantee its supply. or form a JV to speed up PLUGS production plants given the govt loan guarantee doesnt seem to be meeting the banks requirements (or vice versa). Alternatively doing more on site generation and reducing PLGS daily requirements. That may help comoditize the deployment of 1 MW Electolysers and associated storage BOP

WTM - The KIVA robots are battery electric and can return on their own to docking / charging stations to recharge. Hydrogen fuel cells bring no advantage .
While one robot is working another is charging .

BB, I was also wondering if Amazon might be considering converting the robots they use in material handling from batteries to hydrogen power, with the advantage of better performance and/or longer duration (due to higher power density for hydrogen). Although, they would need to be refueled autonomously, a technology that Plug Power has been working on for the refueling station application. Perhaps the same technology applies directly to robots and/or with some minor modifications.

B_B - Do KIVA robots use fuel cells ?

I see nothing about Fuel Cells or Hydrogen in the Kiva information.

Your post is misleading.

Hydrogen is very important for Amazon's energy transition, which is why securing the hydrogen supply is crucial for Amazon. This can be done by building large hydrogen production plants and by producing hydrogen on-site.
Amazon is heavily focused on investing in innovative technologies, Kiva Systems is a good example of this.

2012
Kiva Systems, is a Massachusetts-based company that manufactures mobile robotic fulfillment systems.
…
An Amazon warehouse robot
In March 2012, amazon.com/ acquired Kiva Systems for US$775 million.
...
Since the acquisition by Amazon, Kiva has remained quiet. The company has not announced any new Kiva customers and has stopped its marketing activities. Most of Kiva's sales staff have departed, though the company continues to hire in the engineering and manufacturing departments. Industry observers speculate that Amazon is focusing on internal operations and is not interested in sharing the technology with competitors.

https://stocktwits.com/B_B_/message/585533027

WTM - Wow. No Fuel Cell ! No PLUG.

https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/operations/how-amazon-deploys-robots-in-its-operations-facilities

All these robots need power.



Key quotes:

- 750,000 Amazon robots are doing the heavy lifting for our employees so they can deliver for customers. With the latest in AI, our technology makes our sites safer and enables employee upskilling.

- We’re testing our newest robotics systems at a number of sites, building them in a very practical way and with an approach that is unique to Amazon.

I found a connection between Plug Power and iRobot.

Plug Power said on Thursday it has appointed Colin Angle, the co-founder and former CEO of iRobot, to its Board of Directors. The company highlighted Angle’s experience in “technology innovation, robotics, and strategic leadership”.
Source https://eletric-vehicles.com/plug-power/plug-power-names-irobots-co-founder-to-its-board-of-directors/ Dated 22 August 2024

I would certainly think so

WTM - Only if he bought one of those gizmos for his wife ...

MM77, is there a connection between Dean Fullerton and iRobot?

BB INTERESTESTING

Thanks WTM

Jb whats your thought of mr. Fullerton?

B_B - No mention of PLUG.

Nothing to do with Plug.

BB, MM77, is there a connection between Dean Fullerton and iRobot?
Was the most successful warrant contract negotiated by Mr. Fullerton for Amazon mentioned in your previous post, the one with Plug Power?

29 Mar 2015 Scott Kirsner
…
amazon.com/ chief Jeff Bezos had a connection to iRobot, … The relationship was never announced – Bezos became a strategic adviser to the company, not a board member – and even industry analysts who follow iRobot weren’t aware of it. But for several years starting in 2004, Bezos visited iRobot’s offices, participated in strategy sessions … and became a mentor to iRobot chief executive Colin Angle, … Bezos is no longer actively advising the company, … Helen Greiner, the third cofounder of iRobot, says she met Bezos at a different technology conference, shortly after that, she recruited him as an adviser to iRobot. Bezos also made an investment in the company, which was privately held at the time.
…
Angle says that Bezos was an adviser “in a very formative, important moment in our history,”
…
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Strange, why would Amazon let a highly valued employee go?

He also completed Amazon’s largest project to date, a $1.5 billion airport and parcel facility, precisely on schedule.
...
He also led Amazon’s Hydrogen Economy team that reduced Amazon’s carbon footprint and generated significant cost savings. Additionally, Mr. Fullerton negotiated Amazon’s most successful warrant contract, adding billions of dollars in value.
...
https://stocktwits.com/B_B_/message/585390600

Thanks

JB, I took the liberty to fix the link in your previous post.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-gas-industry-warns-over-wavering-support-hydrogen-ramp-up-2024-09-18/

More Bad News :

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-gas-industry-warns-over-wavering-support-hydrogen-ramp-up-2024-09-18/<br>

Banger - Those prices are for generic hydrogen.

The data is composite so no single producer can be identified.

The regional location seems to be the major factor in the price range.

Hi Jack
Can you clarify if that was for generic any color hydrogen and for hydrogen trucked to your point of use not generated on site.

Thanks

Catalytic converters contain valuable metals, including platinum, palladium, and rhodium. The black market demand for these precious metals has surged, leading thieves to target catalytic converters as a lucrative source of quick income.Jan 25, 2024

A typical SCR unit uses a solid catalyst, containing vanadium/tungsten oxides coated on a titanium substrate.

—-the application of selective catalytic reduction (SCR) catalysts is a promising solution that —-can be rapidly adopted from conventional diesel engines.——

Copper-based SCR catalysts have an early light-off temperature and reach maximum efficiencies of up to >99%. On the other hand, vanadium systems promise almost no secondary N2O emissions.

Seems like a toss up, cost wise.

And SCR catalysts already used in diesel engines.

Tino Speaks !
I agree. We can eliminate the harmful toxic emissions from most vehicles ... It's only a matter of money.

Adding the cost of expensive emissions reduction equipment to an already expensive Hydrogen application is a lot like hydrogen itself.

YES ... it can be done and Yes , it works ; but it is NOT economical in the real world.

Thank you for linking a credible scientific journal, instead of 2 guys in Trucker Hats with a microphone.

There are ways to eliminate NOx from H2 combustion. While this statement is technically correct it is meant to confuse the uninformed for his benefit..........Become informed...........
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306261923014095