Icahn Enterprises LP (IEP) Options

zilla, Option are not good to day trade unless the stock is vary volatile. The premiums one needs to pay to BTC on a PUT are too expensive as they need time decay and pps movement. The movement of SMCI will depend on next earnings Feb. #3rd. which are expected to be good. What is needed and holding this stock down is certified financials which are close to a year late. I am expecting they will update and certify their financials on release of earnings - if not their management should be fired / replaced. As they have been worry by SEC for late financials and could get delisted if not certified.

Just closed the other SMCI @ 5.90 as I expected a better pop after the take down but the chart looks broken and could go 24 so I'll take my loss now and if it hits 24 I'll STO that put again at a better price. It followed NVDA down but NVDA bounced good where SMCI didn't. I thought it would pop on META earnings and it's up but not as strong as I thought and it may keep going up the rest of the day but I can watch and look to deploy funds towards IEP. Called Merrill yesterday and got my restriction lifted so might move more cash to my Schwab as I told them I wasn't happy I got shares on my IEP divi when it says cash on my settings. The PPS was so low I could have bought more shares had they given me cash. Also thinking of taking 5K and opening a Robin Hood and maybe another 5K to another platform. I loved my TDAmertrade and haven't cared for Schwab and my opening Merrill was because of wanting to try new platforms.

zilla as for SMCI I also do not like the charts as it has been down since the Hindenburg came out with short last year.
Their next earning Feb 3 will be important - most to see if their can certify their financial audits as they are currently late
and have not been updated. The worry is if they can not certify their audits they may get delisted.

As for IEP - I like it and their earnings should be good Feb. 26. IEP still heavily shorted and now without Hindenburg support those shorts
should cover before record date around March 11

Closed this one at 4.60 as I wasn't liking the chart and felt I might get a better price later but kept the March one as it's 23.50 if assigned.
IEP at 9.90 and looking like it's going to break that 10 and keep climbing. =)

Thanks, I just got back from the gym and saw your message so I jumped in for 10 myself to add to my other ones. I bought 1,000 shares when it went down to 18 and flipped it in the low 20's so I'd be happy to get shares that low or keep the premiums. Was looking out to March on the earlier trade but was hoping to get the shares on that one. lol

Thanks, I looked at it and STO SMCI Mar 21 '25 $29 Put and collected 5.50 on 20 contracts
If on Mar 21 it is below 29 my cost would be as assigned = 23.50

Not IEP related but did another STO on SMCI 30 2/14 for 4.04 was up 75% 1.75 so 4.04 is what I got so I'd pay under 26 when the stock was 29.40 just a bit ago. So trying again learning options and happy IEP broke 10 today for a bit.

Yes the ASK was .85 I thought I'd have to go higher because I only saw 10 there but all 60 went quickly but in my 'activity' it's many different blocks in a second.
I got an email the other day from Merrill saying something about day trading and restricting my account so it didn't let me use those funds to do what I wanted too. lol I was able to buy the calls back I had sold in ARWR cheaper than when I sold them earlier in the day but that's going to be a no no according to Merrill. Well if they become difficult I'll move my money to my Schwab for 3 months until that goes back to normal. At 54 I thought I had a handle on my ADHD but stocks really pull me back in. lol Have an excellent weekend.

Zilla so you closed that position out was it at .85? which is the ask - When I STO a PUT I put my order in at Ask or above if I do a BTC I put order in at low price BID. Anyway glad you collect some $$ with it.

I went big doing some STO Feb. 28th $11.00 PUTS collecting between $1.55-$1.60 on 250 contracts in 3 different accounts. I expect next earning Feb 26 will be positive of 3 Billion earnings and .18EPS which is big improvement from past quarter. The short interest has gone up to almost 12 million but the pps has not helped short sellers a squeeze is coming.

Unfortunately I needed to free up that cash as one of my other plays pulled back today so I BTC it .05 better than I got it for. lol
The good news is I tried something new and now have that little experience knowing it was done right because the put now shows 0
Will keep watching and see if it gives me another chance next week if my other play reacts the way I'm expecting.
Thanks again

Excellent and thank you. Was going to put .10 but I like .05 better. That way if it POPS it probably closes. It's why I went with Feb 21st instead of March. Wanted to know how it worked out sooner rather than later. lol Trip is Feb 10th-14th in Florida so even if I make an offer I won't close before that expires. I have other plays popping I could sell but I also want to keep those. BHC/BLCO/ARWR sooo addictive but I like this selling to open STO puts thing as I'd get shares I already want cheaper or keep the premium. Both good IMO.

Zilla, yes just to confirm when you did your STO-sell to open PUT you can close it before expiration date with a BTC-buy to close.
BUT you only want to do that if IEP moves up rapidly past $10 as I have found the premium you would pay to BTC is also vary high
unless it is close to expiration date. I many times just put a BTC of .05 if the pps moves up rapidly, but I normally just let them expire and
keep 100% of that premium or get assigned

Thanks and nice get on the 12.50's
So BTC (buy to close) is how I close that trade. Thanks again as I might be making an offer on a house around that time so if it's super low I might try and close that instead of expire. Thanks again and enjoy that 33K as I'd be very happy being over 12.50 by then because my calls I already had would be looking really good. Those are for ER and any divi announcement. Would love it if Carl announced back up to a buck being we didn't get all the CVI shares but .50 is still good as long as it's not cut. He could burn the shorts with that as we'd be at 15 in no time.

Thanks again. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. IEP 9.78 and climbing slow and steady.

zilla, good trade and I feel it vary safe. IMO you will keep that .90 per share $5400 on Feb. 21 as IEP should be over $10.00
I just STO March 21st $12.50 PUT and collected $3.30 on 100 contracts. When you STO time decay works on our side and you can always BTC-buy to close that position if IEP makes big run up before expiration date but I am greedy and usually wait for them to expirer as I never do a STO PUT unless I am happy with pps I would need to pay if assigned.

Zilla, I have been doing options a long time. I usually work 2 months out for best perineum's. Now every month I usually collect 25K plus last month over 75K so that is good part time $$$$$ now in my retirement.

I did it.
60 STO 10 puts expire Feb 21st so I either own 6,000 shares at 9.10 or get the .90 premium if over 10 for 5400 minus the trade.
Thank you. I'm good with owning the 6K but still got March calls if it goes over 10 off a short covering rally or good news/ER etc...
This will be interesting because I usually only 'buy' calls and on occasion buy puts on high fliers expecting a pull back but that's rare. More tools in the tool belt so thank you for explaining as I wasn't sure STO/STC etc but now have a better understanding. =)

Zilla, There is still about 12 million shares short on IEP - I see a big pps movement before March 11th which is the next expected record date. IEP earning out Feb. 25th will show a big improvement with positive reported earnings. I still like my STO PUTS as I collect big premium and if assigned I own them at low pps - then can turn around and STO covered Calls

Now that Hindy is no longer putting out and promoting short sellers those that followed him need to cover soon!

There are several downsides to short-selling. You have unlimited loss potential, the market has an inherent positive bias over the long run, you'll probably have to pay a fee for borrowing the shares, and yes, you are responsible for paying any dividends issued by the stock while you're short.

Thanks. I'm still buying the calls. Been tempted to try STO but I don't like sitting on the cash as my ADHD kicks in and I'm constantly buying and selling when I see things I like move up or down. Too addictive. lol
I saw the Hindy news and I'm thinking shorts are stuck between a rock and a hard place especially with the chart looking like it's climbing slow and steady after the Hindy pop/drop. I'm expecting one more shakeout but would be nice to climb up past your 11 puts.
So Carl is invested in BHC/BLCO and BHC traded 16 million in the AH so maybe something is about to happen. POP or drop I've got no idea as I'm in calls for those two too. lol Sooo addictive. lol

Zilla, did you buy calls or STO-sell to open which is a covered call? I usually do not buy unless to close.I will also roll a STO PUT if conditions look positive for IEP. If you feel IEP will go up I always do a STO- PUT yesterday I STO the 2-28 $11.00 PUT and collected $1.88 per share so if on expiration date 2-28 IEP is at or above $11.00 I keep 100% of premium I collected if below I will be assigned but my cost would be $9.12.

I also STO 2-28 $10.00 PUT collecting $1.10 remember if you always sell time decay works for you and you have 60-70% better chance to be in the money. I watch the charts and do my STO PUT when stock is trading below RSI 30and I STO covered Calls when pps is trading above 70-80 in resistance zone.

What I see is there is still a large amount of shorts that need to cover or buy back know that short seller Hindenburg shut its doors yesterday and will no longer promote short selling. IEP will go up! = https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=IEP&ty=c&ta=1&p=d
forward P/E at 11.8 looks great they should report earnings Feb 25 which will be positive estimated .18 this is why I used 2-28 as my expiration date as I expect IEP will rise after earnings. They have March 11 record date the date to own to collect dividend which will be .50, but could be higher if CVI restates their dividend.

If you play options correctly you can make big $$$$ but I recommend to .STO sell to open first usually a PUT. Good luck if I had your email I would send you my Option Notes that help explain more about option.

I was watching CVI have a hell of a week and wondered why IEP went the other way...So added

I rolled my calls from tomorrow to March just the other day. Chart was looking like it was about to turn and yesterday it did a small up and slowly back down so I took action in my Merrill account because my Schwab was still drying powder. Merrill gives me shares even though it's set to cash, so I wanted to sell them in that account and add them to my Schwab but after what I saw yesterday I didn't hesitate and added to Merrill. Today was BEAUTIFUL but looks like I'll get stuck with my IEP in Merrill for a few more quarters. lol

Good News - Activist short-seller firm Hindenburg is shutting down out of business.
This should take short seller and make them cover.
Next earnings Feb. 25 look positive and expected EPS .18. time to load up today up 3.75%

IEP is very oversold here at $9.14 and great time to add $$$. IEP is largest holder of CVI which is up 8% today. IEP 4th quarter will come Feb 25th and expected earning 3 billion with EPS plus .18 so IMO IEP will go up a lot in 25

Liking the chart set up and thinking we've bottomed (hopefully)
IEP past pattern of selling from divi date to just before getting the divi in our hands has been a past pattern so we should be heading up soon.
Thought they try and take it down to a 30% divi like they usually do but low 20% is the lowest so far.

IEP had a sell off early because of this false statement: Bill Ackman corrected his post to state he meant IE to short not IEP. so could be why we are down and correcting back. A warning to those that short a dividend paying security is if you are short you pay that dividend to the person that loaned you those shorted shares.

Bill Ackman says he's short IEP, long FNMA for stock-picking contest, which latter he corrected to short IE

https://seekingalpha.com/news/4386431-bill-ackman-says-hes-short-iep-long-fnma-for-stock-picking-contest

Thank you. Looking forward to 2025.

My finding on Dividend options is you only get the dividend if you actually own the stock before the record date. If you STO you do not own the stock and you normally see a pps adjustment take place before the record date to equal the dividend that they pay. So many times I have a STO PUT order in before the record date to catch the max premium / oversold area and go out to the next expected Dividend record date and use a option expiration or strike date before that next record date. I use this site to calculate when next record date should be = https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/iep/dividends

It is more work or research needed when you STO a PUT on a dividend stock but can be worth it$$

Thank you so much for sharing. Been just doing the buy calls since 2012 and losing often but getting enough big winners to keep going. I just started watching Youtube vids the past week trying to get a better understanding. A lot of the stuff I found was over my understanding. What you wrote will help A LOT and I'll read it a few times to get a better understanding. I use to have TDA and was comfortable but now Schwab and Merrill which I'm still getting use to and didn't want to screw up and lose more than I have. lol So THANK YOU again.
One question is if we 'sell' do we owe the Divi?!? It's why I stayed away for divi options unless I planned to exercise which I lost out on with IEP as I had calls that we're after the Divi and I didn't exercise and it went below the strike price after the divi so it was a total loss. Which was fine because I made it back overall but would have been nice just selling it on the dollar divi POP news. lol

Zilla, I am sending just part of years of my option notes: When you STO time decay works for you but when you BTO time decay works against you with a high % of losing. so I only STO a PUT normally 45 days out but look at Dividend record date to help with strike date, and wait for RSI below 30 oversold for best $$ I then have STO- covered calls at strike price above over bought or resistant area. Good luck with investing!

OPTION NOTES:
This is years of notes I collected and put in writing to help understand Option trading. After many years of losses, I realized it is always best to STO-Sell to open first because of time value which you do not get on a BTO-Buy to open first.
Option can be used to leverage one’s investments in stocks and understanding a better buy or sell of securities while generating cash flow.
Option basics: You can
BUY TO OPEN (BTO) – you pay to open and is a Debit.
SELL TO OPEN (STO) (My favorite money maker both Covered Calls and naked PUTS) – you receive credit into your act. This is the money maker as you ether (STO a PUT) – my favorite or a Covered Call on stock you own. You receive a Credit into your account and use the Time Decay to ether buy to close it back at expiration date or before.
Some Technical chart knowledge helps as you need to see Support and resistance areas. I STO a PUT when pps is close to low Support zone and STO a Covered Call when pps is high up close to Resistance area.
SELL TO CLOSE (STC) – you sell ( receive credit) to close an open position
BUY TO CLOSE (BTC) – you buy (debit) to close open position.
IN ADDITION, YOU CAN LET YOUR OPEN OPTION EXPIRE ON THE EXPERATION DATE IF YOU ARE IN THE MONEY AT THE TIME OR YOU WISH TO HAVE YOUR OPTION ASSIGNED OR STOCK CALLED OR SOLD FROM YOUR POSITION.
Option Expiration date: Is always the 3rd Friday of each month, which could be next month or years away – the more time to expiration date would demand the most premium. Unless your stock does weeklies which I love as you can play them every week - weekly expiration dates which make stock more volatile and better for options players.
VERY IMPORTANT: To be a better stock trader You must understand the time value of option premium as option traders receive or pay the most if you have more time before expiration date, which could be many months or years out. You must also understand the big players like Hedge funds make more money with options and they manipulate the pps of stock to maximize their premium. Even if you are not an Option player you must understand why the pps of you stock moves up and down depending on the time value of the option expiration date.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO?
BUY to open CALL OPTION – you feel the underlying instrument (in this case stocks) will move above the strike price at any time up to expiration.

STO - SELL A CALL OPTION or called (covered Call) you first own the stock, and you would want the pps to close below strike price on expiration date. I do this often to generate cash flow and watch the option premium and time as expiration date gets closer to buy to close my position or if I feel comfortable the pps will close below I let it expire and collect 100% of my premium.

- To SELL TO OPEN PUT OPTION – My favorite - you believe the pps of the stock is currently to low and feel the pps of stock will move up rapidly or close above the Strike price on expiration date. You collect the premium at time of sell but the negative with selling put option is you must have the cash reserves in your account to buy stock if it is assigned. Note: If you want to buy a stock you could first write a sell to open put, which is called a naked PUT and use the collected premium you received to lower your cost IF you get the stock assigned. To make the most premium you sell to open put when the pps moves down rapidly along with the time value. Look to enter your STO PUT when the pps is at bottom of Bollinger band at support area. I like letting the big hedge funds manipulate the pps monthly to maximize my own portfolio of stocks. You must have cash or margin reserves in your account if you get assigned or forced to buy at your strike price. I ONLY open a STO PUT if I feel the pps will be higher than strike price at expiration or I want to buy the stock and us a PUT option to buy at lower pps.

-BUY TO CLOSE PUT OPTION – if you had a sell to open put option you could buy it back to close your position.
Option buyers and sellers want stocks with high implied volatility.
High and Low Volatility trading:
High Volatility = you want to be Option Seller
Low Volatility = you can be Option Buyer, but Option Sellers have highest % of profit because of Time decay works against buyers
Option trader daily check list: Also used to be better stock trader.
- Check Futures will give market direction = Futures (finviz.com)
- Check major news = CNN - Breaking News, Latest News and Videos
- Possible Portfolio Impact Look at what is moving = FINVIZ.com - Stock Screener
- Trade Hierarchy - closing positions, any adjustments, new trade entries,
- Walk Away make time to cut the cord – be patient and let the MM move the stock to the price you want and don’t chase the pps you want.
- EOD Review – what changed, what is moving, any adjustments, new trades or exits.

Some Financial / Analysts web sites that can help find good stocks for Option trading.
- https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=IEP&p=d
- https://maximum-pain.com/options/iep
- https://www.macroaxis.com/stock/IEP/Icahn-Enterprises-LP
- https://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=zyme
- https://www.tipranks.com/stocks/agnc/dividends
- https://stockanalysis.com/stocks/iep/statistics/

https://optionalpha.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ultimate-Strategy-Guide-Option-Alpha.pdf
Also, see the script in thinkorswim Advanced Charting Setup & Technical Indicators just after 7:00 minutes:
This series of videos will help set up and use TOS:
Get to understand Max Pain (Options) https://maximum-pain.com/
It is at a strike price (usually a strike price with most open interest) that the MM will attempt to manipulate the pps at expiration date to cause most pain (Loss) for option trader and most profit for those MM depending on which side of the strike price they close it at expiration.
More info = Max Pain (Options) - Overview, How It Works, Calculation (corporatefinanceinstitute.com)

I buy options. Usually calls but with the AI boom I've put about 5% of my portfolio into various puts across that space for 2025. So if worthless it's not too bad but if things go south then I'm hedged a little bit and in things that have out of this world PE's. I tried selling options and I have margin ability (rarely use) but my cash reserves are changing daily. lol I went 95% cash day before election then all in after then 50% cash and was about 25% cash this morning. I would have stayed 25% cash into the weekend but I've got those puts in case something happens globally that rattles markets. I think IEP will keep the Divi for at least a year and I think the assets will do well going forward anb hopefully CVI gives the Divi back and IEP's increases over time. As a BLCO and BHC shareholder I'm also expecting a Spring deal that makes 2025 a great year for IEP.
Looking forward to my 3,000 after Christmas gift for the 6K I had before and happy to get those shares back 3300 cheaper. Almost like the dollar divi from before.

Zilla that 10.40 buy should be good going forward. My guess why IEP went down today is they originally offered to buy CVI extra shares at 17.50, but Carl increased that to $18.25 so those shares will cost IEP just a little more. We are oversold and hitting double bottom plus IEP does pay out .50 per share on Dec. 26 and both IEP & CVI should move up nicely in 2025.

Do you play options? If so I like the STO-sell to open 1/17/25 $10.00 PUT where you can get paid .47 per share - so if price for IEP is above $10.00 which it should be you keep that .47 cash you collect today. One must have cash reserved or margin if on that Jan strike date the price is below $10 you will be assigned / buy IEP at $10 but your cost would be $9.53

I I bought back my 6,000 IEP's for 10.45 that I sold above 11 expecting the gap in the chart to fill 10.40 which we hit today...Could always go lower but the chart looks good to run up into the 50 DMA. I've got calls so I'll flip either the shares or calls depending on a juicy premium if we do. If not, I tasty dividend is also good. Was going to wait til the 20th to add IEP but the chart is looking coiled butI who knows.

IEP has been buying up shares of both CVI and now UAN = https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=UAN&ty=c&ta=1&p=d
2025 should be a great year for turn around and $$$$ for IEP shareholders. UAN pays 10% dividend and expecting lower cost under Trump

HERE, read what Hindenburg Research said about IEP. They're usually quite accurate about their short targets. My advice, buy quality and diversify. Always, shun gimmicky dividend stocks. Click link below:
https://hindenburgresearch.com/icahn/

Junk!

kenny54, also I play the options a lot and today is a weekly exploration date so I expect closing pps will be close to 15.00 and depending if the big players were selling or buying the 15.00 Strick price it will close on that side. I expect just over 15.01

Agree IEP is looking better and have added a lot!! Chart looks good and should move back to 17.50 area soon. The next earning will be interesting and could create a short covering as I believe they will be better then annalist forecast..

IEP is now on an upward trajectory. The lawsuits against Mr. Icahn were dismissed by the Federal judge , and shows the skullduggery some have stooped to artificially lower the price. Buying more, great dividend!

I was able to sell my shares the other day and buy Dec calls when it came back down. I got lucky and would rather hold 60 ITM calls than 6,000 shares in case divi is cut or a bad ER. Chart is a Deep looking Cup and Handle so that's looking good too.
A slow climb up is better than a POP so I don't trade it. lol

I like how the chart looks and IEP could jump to $15.40 area real fast.

Zilla, yes tomorrow IEP will pay $1.00 per share which equals 31% which is too high but only because shorts have destroyed the pps. So if at 3rd quarter earning IEP cuts the dividend it would help reduce debt which is good. LOOKING FORWARD IEP= https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=IEP&ty=c&ta=1&p=d
looks good with positive earnings and vary nice EPS going forward so any dividend cut could be short as Icahn likes his DIV and the majority comes from the dividends his companies pays out.

I do feel IEP is strong buy and should be in $20 by next year or before.

Been back in and flipped some calls but now holding shares. Willing to add and have dry powder to do so if it drops again.... Divi gets paid this Wednesday (25th) (1.00) and it's trying to find a new range. I expect a divi cut to .50 but if not this is going to do very well long term with a 30+% divi for those bought recently.

They should be put out of business

Agreed, and that could be in the Billions for lost share value.

September 13, 2024 11:19 PM UTC
Icahn Enterprises wins dismissal of investor lawsuit
Carl Icahn's investment company Icahn Enterprises (IEP.O) won the dismissal of a lawsuit claiming it artificially inflated its share price by issuing unsustainably high dividends to help the billionaire investor obtain large amounts of personal loans.
In a decision on Friday, U.S. District Judge K. Michael Moore in Miami said shareholders in the proposed class action failed to show that the company made material misrepresentations or omissions and did so with an intent to defraud.

I would like to see IEP sue HINDENBURG "RESEARCH for damages.

ICAHN ENTERPRISES VINDICATED BY DISMISSAL OF MERITLESS LAWSUIT THAT PARROTED FALSE AND MISLEADING CLAIMS PUBLISHED BY HINDENBURG "RESEARCH"

Seems like the shorts should start covering vary soon. IEP has forward P/E 13.23 Cash/sh of 11.90 going forward earnings all look positive with low pps now Dividend pays 37.31% but I do expect he will cut that next quarter. IEP - https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=IEP&ty=c&ta=1&p=d

Hope so. Bought more today in my long term dividend account. But getting kick in the teeth since my first buys at 22.00

IEP has been oversold and should bounce back soon - IMO. They are scheduled to pay the $1.00 per share dividend on Sept. 25th

Their 3rd quarter earning around Oct 31 will be important but expected forecast is a positive .21, which should be good to keep dividend.

I feel we will hit the low today and great time to buy / add more for long term.

Jesus, this is getting silly….will they cut the dividend again????