Freeze Tag Inc (PK) (FRZT) Quote

Know anything about Kiraverse? Seems like it might be related.

My opinion is the company needs new leadership. The current team has been unable to grow the company and increase shareholder equity. They have had ample time and it hasn’t happened.

Yeah and they discredited themselves looong ago with 1) a reverse split 2) GARFIELD GO (lololol!) and 3) no growth or direction to build the business whatsoever in how many years? There's so much more to unpack but I truly believe share price and lack of liquidity accurately reflects the company.

I have never trusted "bros" like Vardemann who wear flat brimmed and/or fitted baseball caps in business or in horticulture. Those hats seem to be a consistent sign of ineptitude...

I have seen no progress. Still under a penny. Pathetic. Ps But there is always tomorrow.

Been on the sell side the past 6 months and will continue to do so unless I see positive signs. And I have millions of shares.

Thank you for your input on Freeze Tag Inc, kbaz. It is greatly appreciated.

This is the Confirmation that you are not Interested in getting to the Bottom of the Company's Progress...... And a Tell that you are doing quite the opposite.

Good Night and Thanks for Playing Along!

This Sounds good, But Not really consistent with any of your posts for so many years. Which comes to bring a Question of why are you here Posting without Action.... You aren't selling? This Ticker has you beaten down According to your post. EEEEEEEYYYYYYYOOOOOOOOORRRRR!!!!!

So doesn't pass the Smell Test. Everyone of your Posts is an Agenda to attempt to get past the Narrative of the Development Rollout is on the Near-Term Horizon... And a Breakout in Price at this Point would be an interesting Event to be a Part of. So even a little Nudge wouldn't be a sin.

But back to you on the Reading of the FIN's.... I've been here long enough to see the Taxing of the Team in the Early Days to Push Out another Cash Grab Special in order to Raise Capital to Cover the development Costs and not lose share price. You see it would go up at the Slightest of purchases back then. But Now!?!?! Hasn't Moved the Needle in Our Acquisition to this Point. An we Increased our position by 2X... So my Nieces and Nephews will have something to hold onto when I'm Gone...

This last Q, with Declining Revenue and shrinking Cash on Balance Sheet Should Actually Trigger an indicator that an event was likely to Occur and depleting unnecessary assets makes for an Easier Transition. So, If a Merge is Happening, or something other where a Large Capital Influx would make that Cash on the Balance Sheet Unnecessary going Forward. So I would Expect Some Sort of Balance Sheet Expansion could be about to Occur.

You see, I've studied "Good to Great" Front and Back. And back in my younger days, submitted many Financial Statements to Corporate... With my Commentary as to the Reason for Significant Changes. Worked directly with Operations and with Commercial Types and can Sniff Bullshidders with Clever adjustments to their Narrative... But Never consistent through their whole Story. That's kind of the Mold you fit into.

Have heard all your points through the years. You have a poor track record.

I invest to get a return on my investment. That hasn’t happened here in the years since my investment. The most recent q reported a declining business. It seems that either this is more of a hobby or it’s the wrong management team.

Here's a Scenario for ya! For Hypothetical purposes. Let's Suppose that a Deal is/has been made and on the Quiet for now. Fully Diluted lets use 450 Million Shares of Common equal for this Exercise. At Current Market Price that puts the Valuation still less than $5 million all in for a Buyout. Does that Make sense?

Now does this Discussion on the Streets and not in the IHUB Platform begin to take on a Whole Separate Narrative Topic. Because what we have, is a minimum $2Million Plus Easy To achieve Revenue Stream. That is Break Even with some pretty Decent Salaries among the Staff. Wouldn't be too much Push to Immediately bump to $750K Revenue Quarters. That all in its historical Capability. Who Knows what this New Backend has to Offer!!!

So Let's say the Dole Out has already been Hypothetically determined. And a Portion to the Retail Market Holders has been predetermined. What Happens when a Rush of Buyers from the Street catch the word? The Company would face legal ramifications when the Issue of New Shares begins to come into discussion. Does the MM's/Brokerages take on the Short Position? Do Craig and Mick Surrender their $.02 Convertibles that Expire on Dec 31, 25?

My Belief is that there will be some Type of Announcement in the Next Month or Two of some sort of Collaboration and Possibly a Merger of Sorts. The California Trips have left a lot to talk About. Have Craig, Mick, Rob and Don already signed an NDA and under Gag order?

I suspect a Company buyout in the Market, Is approx. $100 Million Valuation with the Growth Potential on Some Marketing Campaign. However, As a Public Company in the OTC with a Potential NASDAQ Discussion in the Not so Distant Future. A bit North of that.

Wouldn't take much to Convert this Organizations IP into a WEB3/Blockchain Monster.

So a 50X Bagger Overnight on this Ticker is not so much an Out of this World Discussion I've had in Close Circles on the Streets.

What I haven't finalized yet is the Timeline. I'm working on that Now. So why this is so much on my mind this Weekend.

YIKES!!!! That's one Opinion I cannot Agree with.... The Backend $.5 Million Capitalized Development Project only recently was completed. And a Small portion of that has only been implemented. Can you imagine the opportunity missed if over the past year a "ZACK ATTACK" Style raid would have occurred on the Float? Long Term it will turn out to be a Blessing for the Generations.

I believe that a lot of the accomplishment announcements were out of Craig and Micks Control to keep posting Updates. From what I observe, they both could be getting Antsy to moving on to a Comfortable Retirement.... I am betting that ROB V is already Stepping on to his New Found Lifestyle and kind of Catching his Stride.

I wouldn't be too surprised if a "Zack Attack" style Raid were coming to this Ticker soon. Meanwhile, The Meme Coin Market is an actual 24/7 exciting venture to be participating in. You may want to Consider it....

Good luck to all and Pre Congrats to the Long term HODLERS!!!!

What it boils down to is current management has had ample time to increase company and shareholder value. This has not been accomplished. I suggest it is time for a management change.

Do you Remember when all of the Newbie MUNZEE Players were on this Board at the Beginning of the Merger? I Miss them all for the Entertainment and the insight from their Perspective.

That All Changed.... That Must've been where CH, MD and RV informed them that they were under SEC Gag Order as they were joining the BETA TESTING Squadron. I wonder how many of those folks are still holding? I only say that, because there was indication that quite a few were Holders early on. So no more family and friends either. I am sure shareholders will tightly be monitored, as it's such a small population with very few Transactions. Kind of like $CELH after their merger with Carl Desantis, Li Kai Shing and Russell Simmon's Gang. Oh Man! How I miss the Good ole Days.

Wonder what the deal is for Rewarding the Beta Testing Team? Was Something mentioned on a Public Podcast that they need to be in Cuppazee? Would that be an optimal setting up as a Crypto Exchange Hub? It Currently Houses the Inventory Data as well as a gateway to the FRZT Store. Just a SWAG!!!!

Oh were these developments that you haven't seen? By your Comments, Sounds like you are indicating that you are not aware of the Existence to "PROGRESS". But, without this awareness, Why would you propose to "Put in an independent BOD and make the hard decisions moving forward"?

I CALL BULLSHID!!! But I will let you get enjoyment in the rewards of a response to your postings.

I keep a close eye monitoring any of the points of information data and changes in behavior. (ie IHUB) so to recognize indicators as to the next Major Progress Move.

Have a Great Labor Day!!! Looking forward to the upcoming Market Season starting tomorrow!!!!

What it Boils down to is this. Is FRZT showing signs of being at the Point where Speculators are willing to begin to show up and take a Position. With the Latest, Fins and the Buzz, by the Company, that some exciting things are coming in September could bring some interesting times. The IHUB is only good for a view of the Paid Posters showing up after being idle for some time. So some money is getting thrown to IHUB Posters I would Presume. We all know, IHUB is not the PLATFORM to plant the seed for the largest group of Early Speculators. How many out there, just unaware of a Break Even Development Company with little to No Dilution Chance exist in the OTC. That's the Major Achievement. The Current Market Cap at what is on the Ask is Ridiculous at anything below the Current Annual Revenue of $2million.

Another gauge in the IHUB is when many stuck in a Scam use the platform to Complain. Doesn't seem to be the Case with $FRZT I would argue the Opposite is true. The Complaining is Coming from those in Desire to Acquire!!!! It's all in the Tone!

Now Let's look for a Drop in Price on the ASK, with No Volume. Are there any BALLS by the MM's to put some Volume out there?

It's been proven that MUNZEE in it's Current Environment could print $3 Million to $5 Million in Revenue if desired to. And all of that at 85% gross Margins.

So yeah, IHUB is definitely not for the Purpose of Discussing Poor Management Garbage. It is only a guage for Monitoring and Instigating Paid Poster behavior. There are far better places to plant the seed when ready.

Can you define that? Because what you are suggesting comes off as putting a discount on the Importance of The Vision, The Developer Relationships and the Overall Technical Capacity that have been Great Successes for these Two. We have Yet to see, what the 3 years of Backend Development has to reveal. Quite Possible could be a BlockChain/Web3 system that ramps up Crypto/NFT Economics to a new Level. Who Knows Yet!?!

The Point you bring, Does Have Merit. But, you don't Pinpoint the Concern. It appears you make it as a blanket for the whole Team. And that is the Marketing Piece has not come to the Forefront. Maybe, to your point, because the company does not possess that Capacity. For Sure, it has not been seen, and a valid point. However, I would also Offer, There is a timing component to consider. And, Maybe the timing in progress has been the reason behind this lack of view for the marketing component.

On a final Note. A Leadership add that could bring about the rapid top line growth, could likely be in the works already. And, I propose it could be in the form of a partnership with a major corporation. There are several In proximity of this organization, that have already announced increases in their budgets to grow their mobile gaming operations. Maybe FRZT could be on their RADAR!!! A move like that, could leave sideline sitters in the DUST, without anything to show. And only current holders with a "Boarding Pass" would get the rewards of that RIDE!!!

I say Frzt needs new management to move forward. Put in an independent BOD and make the hard decisions moving forward.

With OTC Tickers I never rely on Growth in Fin's. But since you asked. I pointed out the Progress made in Player Growth and Gaming App Activity, that is Tangible if you were to View Other Sources. The Retention is Higher and So is the Old accounts returning rate. Anyone that Bought FRZT from the Start, was here because of the Outstanding Reputation and Experience that Craig and Mick have in the Mobile Location Based AR Gaming Industry. Their Reputation is Premium with both Investors and Clients. MUNZEE turned out to be a BONUS, to minimize the Dilution Risk and an Added Window into viewing the Progression of the Company Overall. Anyone with a long term play on this Company would have tapped into that! Why Not You!

We Must be Getting Close. Within the Year, at most '25. At some point the Rollout of the new development will be forced out. Way more influence coming from the large Stakeholders than the Few Retail that Exist. But, there will likely be a fight for a Piece of the PIE, and no much left. There is only so much Available and it has been Shrinking at these values. So this pressure begins to reveal a Tell in the IHUB. As it's where a specific Agenda is more Clearly observed.

This Platform is Notorious for the timing of Certain type posts being a good indicator of Events. As it's either occupied by long term paid posters or Naive Wannabe's with too much expendable Cash. However, IHUB has it's place.

Are you confusing motion with progress. Management has not increased shareholder value for years and years. Everything else is bs.

My Point is Crystal Clear. Everybody knows that every major development/gaming company was dark thru the developing stages. And then, using the example of Niantic, Went to the MOON overnight with its Prize unveiling.

Most companies have private financing backing the venture. FRZT is the first of it's kind, where the Game Development company has merged with a subsidiary to provide Financing and Large Real World Beta Testing Population.

So of course! you can run the narrative of MUNZEE being a Niche Clique Game.

So what facts do we know.
* Revenue has been Steady at Break Even Cash Flow.
* Player base has tripled, Activity of game play multiples of that. Statistics have been public via Statzee and CuppaZee (as well as the MUNZEE download)
* Craig and Mick have Track Record of Building/Selling a Valuable Mobile Gaming Company to a Major in the Industry.
* Craig has a relationship with big time Industry Players ie Viacom, Paramount ($PARA), Jim Davis
* FRZT has a licensing Agreement with PAWS Inc for Garfield Go. (Currently not available, but still in Portfolio and mentioned in privacy statements)
* The Gaming Segment is exploding right now, with Gaming Companies being sought out by The Majors in the Entertainment Industry (ie Epic Gaming and Disney Also $PARA, STARS-HANNA and PAWS).
* The Float is very Small. And at this point I would venture to say almost entirely locked up. Possibly to the extent that a restricted segment of the outstanding shares was forced to be provided to MM's to use as "Implied" Float to Temper a price move due diminishing supply prior to Release date.
* The Balance Sheet reveals for the First Time that Capitalized Development Expense is in Reversal from Increasing to Decreasing. This Marks that a New Matching Revenue Stream is on the near term Horizon. (Revenue Growth Baby!)

Doesn't look like the Company, Nor the MM's are interested in a price move yet... Because that likely could spark a Share Inventory demand from many non DD Flippers and OTC Market Players into the Playing Field. They have been extremely Successful at Suppression and Disinterest.

So don't come here with BS of Craig and Micks Fault! Their financial results are not responsible for Price Action (FB Stock shot through the Roof while they claimed they hadn't a clue, how monetize). Because, I am of the STRONG Belief that something big could be about to pop.... The way you interpret those Financials is likely Extremely Misleading and a Full blown Tell of your Purpose.

No clue what you are referring to - comment in bold below.

Frzt, under current management, has been unable to increase shareholder value through the building of the company. This is the point being made. Not sure what else you are rambling about, and frankly don’t care.


What I would like to know is your motivation behind blocking that Discussion on All Speculating Stock Boards? HMMMM! pull out your Good Book!!!

No they don't, However people do..... for alternative agenda's. So what is the play here? Keep a big swarm from looking at a Non Dilution needing Company that has a huge upside, with a marginal floor? There is only one reason to not discuss the upside of the Known developments that have occurred. What I would like to know is your motivation behind blocking that Discussion on All Speculating Stock Boards? HMMMM! pull out your Good Book!!!

The management team has had years to increase shareholder value. They have failed to do so. Facts don’t lie.

Proverbs ch10 vs21-25

I don't think, even you, believe in what you're selling here. Munzee Merger came along as a means to Beta-Test location/augmented reality gaming world with a diverse pool of players from around the world. Without any advertising or Grand Promoting, they have grown the Active Player base by 3X and have maybe increased the Totally Activity of play by 5X to 10X.... And, Yet they have kept revenues to a point that is designed to only Cover the Research and Development Costs. My Vote is that FRZT/CRAIG&MICK have stuck to the Plan all along. And, with the latest Developments of Implementation of New Assets, and the Announcement of Rebranding beginning this month, we could see a re-emerging of an "In-Fusio" type development Company that has some pretty big players associated with them and New Projects Announcements.

I believe they are intentionally clearing the cash from the balance sheet, via a natural depletion. So, the Q you reference, should draw a much more interesting conclusion to the company and timing, than the Conventional Theory you're offering to the board.

These Mormons are not Fly-by-Night Grifters, they are legit.

However, with all that I posted, By no means will I discount the Devil's capacity to make Wealth too.

You’re missing my point, my vote of a no confidence in management is based on performance over the past 5 years - not what they might do over the upcoming 5 years. They haven’t proven they can grow the company.

Look at the most recent Q - a substantial decrease in assets, a decrease in revenue, a decrease in income etc. Still trying to find something to like in the Q - haven’t found a positive.

Looks like this coming Tuesday September 3 kicks off Rebranding and Promotions initiatives. Let's see how this goes.....
https://officialmunzeepodcast.buzzsprout.com/2259447/15656752-munzee-weekly-podcast-friday-august-30th-2024

Does it seem like a safe time frame to begin trickling some interest to Private Stock Boards and small time retail investors looking for the Next Lottery Ticket Company that is at the Floor with some big time Potential? Little to No Barrier to Global Market Entry. Already an established Player base to bring Newbies along. Let's see if they Venture into Crypto Token or NFT blockchain Space. That would be of Interest at a much larger scale.... Even a 10% chance of that happening is likely explosive!

CZEEO of MUNZEE is in Love with Crypto and NFT for a Side Note!!!

You've got time. timeline is likely a year away. Somehow have to figure out how to reward the beta testing team for all of their support to the R&D Team working on backend Development and future Venture reveals. Heard from this board somewhere that August '25 was the time frame, so have some time to just sit back and occasionally check in. Here's a recent Publication to the Game Players to go ahead and ramp up. 1st Initiative to Ramp up Monetization will probably not occur until all beta testers have been rewarded, in my opinion. It is Evidenced by the organic growth of 3X plus over the last 5 years and still no increase in Revenue to more than Cover Cost.

Suggest we need new management. Seems like a hobby with current management. So far they have proven unsuccessful at growing the business. And yes, horrible history of keeping shareholders updated.

Gotta love how the Company keeps us updated.

PSALMS 115 vs 12-15

True, The Tripling and Growing Number of Active Players hasn't increased Revenue to this Point for Munzee. However, I Do Believe that Munzee is a Precursor Beta Testing Model for A Web3/Blockchain (NFT and Meme Crypto) Mobile gaming System that is Being or is Already Developed.... Right Now what is lacking in that Niche is a Mobile Engagement Mechanism.... Hopefully, Craig and Mick have a Bead on this and specifically is Why Rob V has been Engaging with a lot of these Events.... Seems Geo Caching and NFT/MEME Crypto is a Natural Match.

No. My investment doesn’t have anything to do with rvs gay-bro blog talk. I’m sick of that. It never amounts to anything anyway.

Does it have anything to do with RV's Comments? Starting at 1:30... Possible a Golden Reveal this week.

https://officialmunzeepodcast.buzzsprout.com/2259447/15392419-munzee-weekly-podcast-friday-july-12th-2024

We are.

Are we waiting on a WINNER!?!?!???

Let’s go frzt!

All you have to Do is keep an eye on Counter Intel and Psyops (changes in Approach and Behavior). This Group is Astute to the Information that I have Provided below. Why so Sensitive with Attempts at Subtle Reactionary Propaganda to Attempt Reasoning Alterations. It's not quite ready yet, But appears we are in the Final Days before there is Lost Opportunity on this Ticker. The Big Players appear to be Getting Anxious and Antsy.... You want to know if a Corpse is alive? Tickle the nose or a Slight pin prick to the Neck. This So pretend Cadaver is soon to ARISE and FLOURISH.... Looks like we'll Just have to wait for the Major Players to Dictate the Timing. You cannot hide ENERGY!!!!!!

$FRZT$$$

OK so Here is a Little Context to $FRZT... The Top 3 in the Organization are CH, MD and RV...... Not to Discount the Evidence of Many Hours of Grinding from the Artists, Developers, Story Tellers and Game Designers in the Org. MUNZEE is "Currently" the Flagship Bread Winner Game. That Can be Backed by the Evidence of Premium Pay Players and In Game Sales related to the Financial Reporting in the Current Landscape. But the Interesting Correlation comes from the Management Allocated Attention. While MD and RV (Along with the S.W.A.T. Team of Executors) appear to be putting in Greater than 60 Hours in a Work Week.... It Appears that only about 40% of RV's Time and less than That of MD's Time is Spent on MUNZEE!!!. So Really looking forward to Understanding the Direction of Development for this Organization. I think we see soon, at least while CH and MD don't have to Cover the Inventory of Available Shares, held in the Brokerages, with another Pool of Commons, That would likely cut into their own Pool, Especially if Below their Conversion Price of $.02!!!! I don't think they have an Appetite to Give away anymore Equity..... Let's Hear some WEB3 News!?!?!?!?

Chekout one of the Leaders for yourself...

This is Getting Some Attention..... I am waiting to see over the Month of July and 1st Half of August, If $FRZT has something to do with this! Rollout then Disney Expo, Then Q2 Earnings Reporting!!!
https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2024/06/25/huge-genie-changes-announced-for-disney-world/?awt_a=BL3B&awt_l=Bsi3en&awt_m=3bSMswNhRTpgc3B&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blog&utm_term=&utm_content=

Let's watch how this Evolves over the Coming Couple of Months.... Maybe into Early 2025..... What we may eventually be recording could be History!!!! Already seeing the BID Wall Building and Creeping up as the Spread Continues to Expand as the ASK WALL is Fading!!!

So The Crypto Collection Play to Earn happens to be a Hot Topic. But Let's discuss the Possible Evolution of the 2nd Love of $FRZT which is EVENTZEE APP.... Over the Last Couple of Months, The Management Team has spent Extensive Time at the DISNEY Theme Parks around the World. DISNEY is Rolling out a Brand New Mobile Scheduling and Reservation App. This is right in EVENTZEE's Wheel House. Are we going to find out that Many Irons are in the Fire at $FRZT?

Crypto Markets through a Mobile Location Based A/R Gaming Technology seems like the Next Logical Step for a Company that was a Pioneer in Mobile Gaming Development couple decades ago.... Keep in mind that IN-FUSIO became a Top 3 in the Space when they Acquired Thumbworks several years ago. Do we soon get an overnight Repeat Rhyming of what Happened with IN-FUSIO and Thumbworks. Whose Founders are now Developing $FRZT???? Many Times doing deep dive DD and Getting in while MM's are Holding Down is the Best time to Acquire and HODL!!!!!

Very Few are going to be able to Claim Millionaire/MillionShare here. Float is Now Locked, And I have Suspicion that A lot of the long-term Holders have Likely worked on the Beta-Testing Team(s), over the Last 5 years, and have Signed NDA's and Can no longer buy the $FRZT Common Shares. This Makes me think that a Crypto Reward could be Making a Debut in Short Time. This Would Satisfy a need to Compensate a few thousand Beta Players putting in Hours Behind the Scenes..... Can this Go CRAZY on News?!?!?!??! or DOES it Immediately Get Locked Down and Put on HOLD during an Acquisition/SPAC or Reverse Merger News. I can remember a Few OTC'ers... That closed in the Afternoon with No Activity.... Only to Trade 50X at the Open Following Day. The Way the Brokerages and MM's appear to be landing the Plane, I would bet that Holders get a Brand New Equity Structure Soon!!!!!

Mick Donahoo, A Great CFO has put together some of the Finest Fin's in the OTC. Professional that Provides the Kind of Detail that you can really dig into. here's an Example of some Potential Clues of Good Things about to Roll. IYKYK!!! "Selling, general and administrative expenses increased $126,944 to $569,813 for the three months ended March 31, 2024 from $442,869 for the three months ended March 31, 2023. The increase is primarily due to an increase in amortization, accounting, insurance, salary and contractor expenses, offset by a decrease in marketing, travel and tax expenses." In Mid August we get to see Further Progression of the $$$$ Trail.

NDA's are only done with Companies that Continue to Provide Good Solid and Trustworthy Financials.... Nobody in the OTC has Cleaner, more Respectable and Trustworthy Financials than the $FRZT Group that once Founded Thumbworks and Sold their Company to IN-FUSIO. Easy to Follow up on, if you know how to do Proper DD!!!!! August Comes New Fin's. Between Now and Then be carefully watching how little Risk the MM's are willing to Put out there!!!! Hey Craig and Mick, Y'all Still Keeping up with the Folks from PAWS, VIACOM and PARAMOUNT PICTURES!?!?!??!

Does Anybody Here think that this Mobile App would be something that $FRZT could handle Amazingly with their New Backend Development??? This is Still Going thru some Development Testing until Full Blown Ramp up!!!!! If $FRZT is in on this, Would be YUUUUUUUGE!!!!!! But No Guarantees or Confirmations it's them, However, they are just in Proximity of the Park(s) during some Interesting Times..... Disney Having a Major Company EXPO in Annaheim early August. Let's see if anything comes from that.... It's Right before $FRZT Earnings too!!!!!
https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2024/06/25/breaking-disney-announces-new-name-for-genie/?awt_a=BL3B&awt_l=Bsi3en&awt_m=3brKvfWRGTpgc3B&utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blog&utm_term=&utm_content=

In Defense Posture today on Lvl2. Defense Posture? Sooo What is the Real Reason WHY!!!! Word can Get Out on Information not Received from Private Inside Source. So what is the TELL impacting today's POSTURE!!!!! How many Shares to get this Above $.02 (the lowest Price on Convertible Notes owned by CH & MD).... Then we work on $.039.... Only a Few Companies have the Capability to Mobile Location Gaming Technology to the Ever Growing Meme Crypto Space. MEME CRYPTO is getting Saturated and The Successful ones will have Partnered with a PLAY to EARN, Engagement Gaming Technology Company..... BEHAVIOR Observation, Is just as important as Proof of Sneaky Tactics. Especially when they border line Illegal Intrusion!!!! Know what I mean?

Not Craig and Micks first Rodeo..... Thanks JR/Scott and Friends for the Development Cash and Beta Team!!

Matthew ch 16 vs 26

1 John ch 5 vs 4-5